Great to see more and more Tasmanians come out and speak about the negative impacts of this proposal.Keep up the good work.

We have heard nothing negative from Gunns or the Government, just glowing reports, balloons and shiny trinkets for the masses.
In short they are selling us “Pulp Mill Perfection”
This of course exists only in the minds of those who seek to profit at all costs from this folly.

Dave Groves.
Tamar Valley Wanderer…unable to sleep at 230am

Not sure what TAP is.

Low Carl - TAP is short for Tasmanians Against the Pulp Mill - a community based group that grew out of primarily people based in the Tamar Valley who felt that all the issues re this pulp mill proposal were not being covered. TAP gives people from all walks of life a voice that they would not otherwise have and focuses a great deal of talent that would otherwise have probably just been lonely voices in the wilderness. I am surprised that you have not heard of us as we have been getting plenty of media coverage for a year now. Where have you been?
TAP is non-party political, but we work in concert with all other anti-mill groups when we need to. We meet fortnightly and we have very vibrant meetings of up to 100 people. Our membership is large and growing. If you are based in the North, why don’t you come along to a meeting and check it out for yourself? Or you could check out the website at http://www.tapvision.info
It was TAP that commissioned the TasPoll some weeks ago, the results of which revealed that a healthy majority of people don’t want this mill, despite all the millions that Gunns and the state government have spent on spin and fibs. On that point it is interesting to note that the results of the government push poll that was doing the rounds a few weeks ago have not been made public. What does that tell you?

While I vehemently oppose the pulp mill, unfortunately I would not add my name to such a list.

Not sure how the identity of the collector of the list can be verified.
Not sure if the security of such list should be guaranteed and how this could be achieved, certainly not by public e-mail. 
How the use of the list can be limited and controlled for the purpose it was intended.
Not sure what the intent of the list is and how it would be useful.  In fact it would be more useful to proponents than to opponents, particularly in view of Gunns ability and propensity to sue at a drop of a hat.
In general I can see many privacy issues with such an approach and such a list.

Publication of relevant politicians’ views, attitudes and voting patterns can help individuals to determine their own vote, but that can be done without a list.

I do believe that there is a need to galvanise opposition, not just to the mill but to the blatant obfuscation of both parties’ responsibilities of their role in the democratic processes by passing the pulp mill bill.  But I’m certain that such a list is not the best way to go about it.

Love the idea, but confess I am with Tom on the privacy issue. I want to know that my name on the list will not be made public. Maybe this defeats your intent, I dont know. Please explain how the list is to be used.

Tom (4)
        As far as i am concerned the reluctance of individuals such as yourself in being afraid to speak out with out fear is the biggest problem we are faced with at present.
        As long as Gay , Lennon , and their goons are able to put such fear into those such as yourself ,there is a very real fear of democracy failing, get a grip ! this is “Australia”  not Pinochet’s Chile !
                Don Davey

Good one Don Davey, I agree the thing is that Gunns is winning one of its battles by silencing the ordinary Tasmanian by using fear. If we remain too scared to speak out and put our name to our voice then they win again. We need to become a cohesive group that all stand up and say a big loud no to Gunns and their Pulp Mill and we need to show them that even though they think they can push us around we wont be moved on this one.

(7)
    O.k. so there “are” few of us who tell it how it is ! Ive been doing so for 18 months or so whilst also actively campaigning with signs on my car , m/bike, etc ! and handing out printed matter,  and apart from a couple of suits trying to put the frighten ‘ers on me some months back I’ve had no problems since telling them to piss off!  methinks that the abstainers are afraid as to what their friends and neighbors will think !  as to align themselves with the green movement has in some circles become ( not exactly kosher !)
    So if you feel strongly about stopping the mill , but they are your concern ! just piss them off ! because if you are unable to have an opinion of your own then purely and simply , they ain’t friends ! and for Christ sake ! take a bloody stand before it’s to goddamn late !

                    d.d.

While political action is fine where politics actually functions, what do you do when the problem is one of outright governmental criminality?

What do you do when what can’t happen here,  actually happens before our unbelieving eyes?

John Hayward

Speaking out for what you believe is the whole point. If you are too intimidated to put your name to what you believe, then you lack faith that there is any purpose in protesting at all. That is what the companies like Gunns count on. But the more of us there are, the less likely the repercussions. As we are fortunately still blessed with the right to freedom of speech we should make use of it.

My only purpose in resurrecting this thread is to keep the momentum going along the lines of post (7) and (10) ,because this is at the crux of the whole debate ! the inability and or the unwillingness of people to put name to their opinions thereby allowing the likes of Gunn’s and this present “regime” to continue along what i consider to be criminal behavior.
    We all have kids and or grandchildren, and i for one would be ashamed to have them see me cowered by these bastards ,so get with the program ! and let the rest of the country see that we won’t be bullied into submission !
                  d.d.

People calling for everyone to openly protest against the mill need to remind themselves of some simple realities.  You are right, from your own perspective, but not everyone else’s.  There are many who are simply not in the position to candidly express their views on the pulp mill.

You may not fully understand why, or do not agree, but that does not make those reasons invalid.  Accept that.  Also that these contributions to oppose the mill are not less valuable or effective.  Think about skinning a cat, figuratively of course.

Look at history, which has been used on these pages to describe what is happening in the state.  Somewhat unrecognised, but a very large component of the defeat of Nazism in Europe in 1945 can be, and should be attributed to internal opposition and resistance.  Without which, at best, the war would have gone on much longer, at worst perhaps ended differently.

You might find that some of the people you are willing to cast aside for nothing more than bravado, have in fact more influence in the matter than you think.  Why not appreciate and encourage all forms of support rather than criticise those who can not or will not offer the kind of support you are prepared to provide.

Don is right in saying that we should take a stand
If one of the largest kraft pulp mills in the world is built on one of the smallest islands in the world it will have the potential to cause social and environmental damage,impact on health, ruin tourism and the fishing industry and much more.
Stand up for democracy and this unique state in which we live.

I’m with you Don and Elisha. 

We HAVE to speak out.
Now is our time. 

The anti-pulp mill rally this saturday at noon in launceston will let the voice of the opposing majority be heard.

Please come one and all!

A list of names collected on Voters’ Block will be divided in to the relevent constituencies and shown to candidates only. There will be no addresses on the list and the candidates will not be allowed to keep a hard copy. The names and addresses will be kept on a computer not attached to the web. TAP will use newspaper inserts to inform the Block how to vote. The emphasis will be to vote against those that support the mill starting with those that hold elected positions such as current Mayors or MPs.The list will be kept confidential and destroyed after use.

It’s all well and good to jump up and down about who should do what, regarding putting your names to lists, but it won’t solve the problem faced by this insane barbarity of a chip mill. Because no help will come from any side of politics, not even the greens. Only mass demonstration or a state petition to the governor to throw the current political parties out and ban them and any political party, will turn the screws on the brain dead pushing this macabre destruction and grasp for the almighty unsustainable economic dollar.

Because the two faction party, (lab/lib) have exactly the same policies on everything and the Greens have no real policy on anything. All that’s left to save us from complete economic and social disintegration into enslavement and poverty, is ourselves. We will get no help from anyone, as all of politics and corporate elite’s sleep in the same bed and their only desire is to turn Tasmania into a plantation state, with less than 10 area’s set aside for tourism, all controlled by the same companies and we know who they are. This is one of the reasons they are shutting hospitals, schools and removing services and transport from rural areas. They even stated there will be 10000 less kids in our schools in ten years because our population will be dwindling. Monopolise services, commodities, fuel, shut down small rural businesses, sell the peoples assets, take services away, shut down the agricultural and farming industries. Then buy up farms, remove schools, health services, introduce and increase charges, and the people either move to cities, die, or leave. Because they are downgrading everything the only option to survive for a lot of the young, will be to move.

This chip mill is just another step towards total dictatorship. As said previously, there is no accountability for politicians, senior bureaucrats, or corporations, so they do whatever satisfies them and their corporate masters. Stopping the chip mill, will make no difference. What’s required is a long term goal as well as stop the mill, get rid of the lib/lab coalition and the corporate monopolies currently controlling every aspect of our lives. If the people of this state don’t do that, then the moronic elite will just go about it in another way. Just as we are seeing with Ralphs bay and many other happenings around the state.

Its may sound hard to do, but its not. It all depends on how important to the people it is. We have a choice, more of the same and getting worse, or the people take control and install a political system that not only represents us, but always gives us all a say in the major decisions and directions of our state. We have the technology to introduce government by accountability and community referendums, we just need the desire.

The best way, which I doubt will happen, is to have a peoples petition taken to the governor demanding the removal and banning of all political parties immediately. An administrator should be installed until elections called. Of course we would require an agenda and political system that gave us what we need for this state develop into the paradise it should be, for us all. We either go forward into a new era, or continue down the drain with the past failed systems and become victims of our own refusal to evolve as people and a society.

Well !” Stormbay” all you have done is to write a lengthy prose , more or less done this place many, many,times before ! and more than often by individuals who will not stand up to be counted, or to be blunt ! not put name to their scribbling! well ! enough is enough! if Tasmanian citizens do not have the gumption to save the place in which they live and hope to hand down to their kids then shame on you ,as there are many of us that do and if we were to stand behind “nom de plumes” as do you , do you believe we would have come this far in fighting the good fight ? and WHEN WE WIN what will you do ? ride to victory on our shirt tails ?  well i guess theres not much to be done , however like “Tom” Post (12) you will know who you are ,and just how far you were prepared to involve yourself , won’t you ?
  Some things are more important than self preservation !
              d.d.

Don Davey, can you read, or do you just dismiss what you can’t or won’t understand? Your holier than thou attitude, is probably one of the reasons people steer clear of blind zealots, demonstrations, petitions and lists. Just because someone uses a, “nom de plume” is their business, that’s freedoms of choice, which you seem to fail to accept as a reality and deny. Aren’t you just emulating what we are trying to rid the state of, the do it my way or don’t do it approach? There are many ways of putting yourself forward, make a difference and be supportive of progressive change. Without putting your name to something, which is going to be shown to the enemy. In all forms of conflict, those that normally achieve the most, are normally working behind the lines and are never seen, nor ask to be acknowledged or recognised.

Don you talk a lot, but after putting your name to TAP, what’s the plan until the next election, when it will be too late? It appears you have some form of vested interest in who’s in power, whilst I want rid of all political parties. They don’t work, 100 years of failure on all fronts, proves political parties don’t work. I also want to get rid of the economic approach to life, it’s destroying the planet and all who live on it, for the greed of just a very small number of the elite. We can have a sustainable rejuvenated environment, technological growth and economic stability without the insanity of economic growth.

We are in the 21st century an, if we want to make it past 2020, then we have to take a lateral approach and not continue to follow the same failed, past its use by date deceitful two faction, one party system that currently controls our island and the world.

Don,if beating your chest with your name makes you feel better, I’m happy for you! 
But be careful that people don’t mistake your rage with naive ignorance and stupidity.  I’m beginning to think it’s borderline.

(18)(19)
    I really don’t give frogshit for your opinions until you show some intestinal fortitude ! many of us are openly and actively campaigning and have been doing so for a considerable time with as yet nothing more than the occasional vague threat and accompanied with some futile chest beating! and if more were to stand to be counted then companies like Gunn’s in concert with what is more obviously on a daily count , becoming a burgeoning corrupt state govt,then much more would have been achieved !
  In the time i have been on this site i have seen much written, but sweet F—-k all done by those who remain anonymous but continue to upstage one another with flowery prose.
  Asw for saving the world ! well just at the moment i’d like to stop this mill ! so first things first!  now !  stop being so goddamn precious and get with the program !
                d.d.

Don Davey, take your blinkers off. How would you know what others do who write anonymously, your ignorance and resentment is blinding you and your acting like a typical lib/lab politician. You’re saying show yourself so we can see who you are, reveal and unravel what you’re doing.

Of course you don’t care about any other opinions, it’s all about you and what you want. Those with open eyes can see you’re just walking the same path as the elite, no real answers. Of course we should stop the chip mill, it’s imperative. But it’s abundantly clear that we have the weight of the entire state and federal lib/lab coalition against us and even with a federal election looming, it won’t matter who you vote for, they will get your vote in the end. Unless the people of Tasmania put them last on the ballot. It’s already open slather in this state, as they know the people are slaves to stupidity and fear.

“A list of names collected on Voters’ Block will be divided in to the relevent constituencies and shown to candidates only. There will be no addresses on the list and the candidates will not be allowed to keep a hard copy. The names and addresses will be kept on a computer not attached to the web. TAP will use newspaper inserts to inform the Block how to vote. The emphasis will be to vote against those that support the mill starting with those that hold elected positions such as current Mayors or MPs. The list will be kept confidential and destroyed after use. “

What bloody use is this, the next election is a couple of years away. TAP is going to inform the block how to vote, isn’t that what we are trying to avoid, being told what to do. There is only one way we can save this state, that’s get out of the commonwealth and throw out political parties and the corporations that are destroying us. Anything less means failure.

(21)
yadder, yadder ,yadder ! typical waffler ! long on prose and short on action, sounds like you’ve already lain down for these pricks , now !if they win this thing ,you don’t think for a minute that it will stop there do you ? there are already alternate moves a foot to counter these pricks should the electorate be ignored ! so pour yourself another chardonnay and get back to your knitting !
                      d.d.