Well said Richard,
  Mr. Lennon is a sad individual, with a warped sense of what is right for Tasmania and its people. I think he actually believes what is spin doctors have written for him.

David Leigh.

Well said Richard.  The piece by Lennon this morning was at least good for a laugh (either that or you fall into a deep hole of despair) because he just doesn’t get it!  Let’s just take one of his statements - the one about governing for all Tasmanians.  If this is the case why has he continued to ignore the approximately 80% (probably more by now) of Tasmanians who are against the pulp mill?  The whole thing is a joke and we must keep up the pressure.

Paul is obviously hurting because he would never offer to meet you otherwise.  Either that or you would have “disappeared”!

I can’t see Mr Lennon sitting on Gunns Ltd’s board after retirement/ resignation.
He’d be too busy writing a warts and all account of what he and his mates and minions got up to. ( Just enough truth: not too much and risk prosecution…)
The result would outsell the Latham Diaries tenfold: then, and only then, would he be wealthy enough to buy his way on. At the present price of $2.89, it shouldn’t take too long

Richard: do you think you could stomach a meal with the exploded saveloy?

b

Hear hear!

Carefully watch the food being prepared Richard and follow it through to the table!

It is the case that many shared values are held by opponents, even in a damaged deomcracy, its why we can remain relatively civil and debate issues.

Lennon places the differences with Flannagan in an absurd reduction, a basket labeled forests, around which Tasmania has struggled between 2 views of tomorrow since 1972 when the woodchip industry arrived and the Hydro went into western Tasmania to exploit water resources there to drive industrialization.

That latter leg has fallen by the wayside as globalization moved jobs overseas and new technologies made more targeted increases in power generation capacity achievable through wind.

Tasmania has changed in many ways but still the forest is committed, like the rivers were going to be, to income.

Premier Lennon mentions 45% of Tasmania in reserves and even though that is not all forests it has drawn millions of Tourists to Tasmania and grown that industry well beyond the governments imaginings of the 1970’s.

At the same time almost every tree reserved has been won through campaigning. Either the rare direct concession, through a deal following elections or through Federal intervention as the national government attempted to hose down an election issue.

The Tarkine stands out as an example of the government denying the truth about the few intact remains of the biosphere, denying its name along with its values until there was a need to win over Australians by proving the Federal government had conservation bona-fides. A sudden turn around, its name was recognised and it was reserved.

Interestingly, the main area of contention over native forests has become the remaining high rainfall areas of South Eastern Australia. Plantations, for their advantage in fibre, having replaced many local forest remnants as resource.

Local communities valued more the shrinking biosphere in a relatively natural state and the market demanded a different product, a gloabl impact.

What is different about Tasmania is the centrality of the forest issue[s].

It affects water supply and thus impacts on agriculture, its practices affect health, it affects planning and thus influences planning laws and the behavior of rural local governments, it influences state government from the support it gives by undervaluing the basic product through to the current mega project, a singular answer to Tasmania where no singular answer has worked before, and has corrupted process blatantly right to the top.

And still the Premier doesn’t get it and thinks a cup of coffee or even the non committal lunch will fix it up, after all we are all mates together in this Tasmania.

Good try Paul and now you can attempt to isolate Flannagan as unreasonable, a different position from his former treasonable one, but still one your advisers believe can be turned to advantage. Indeed, had he met that would have been used as well.

However, to move forward now Lennon has to drag a humungous trail of baggage, issues so many that clarity over them as individuals is hard to retain. The stench has become the meat of authors and no doubt a reference book will soon appear, even if a work involving fictional names and events.

Whilst Lennon labours the point about the good things his government has done it hasn’t dawned that they will be outweighed by the other. That goes to the heart of the division between yesterday and tomorrow that has taken root here.

In a mistaken belief that all revolves around the Parliament Lennon is focuses on the new spending in Hobart, his electorate, whilst dealing out division in the Northern electorates and failing to address health for many with no new hospital in the North West.

And in one year he is claiming the power of Caesar to tackle social issues that are long standing and thus should have been addressed, and to stabilize the climate when he has ignored it for years and has committed our carbon sink forests to be wasted away.

Government always wishes for the past to be forgotten, the nature of the decisions make it hard to apologize or change without cost. They always wish to be turning over a new leaf when the old one has skeletonized and the litter below becomes glaringly visible.

Whilst forests will always remain important as an issue, now they will take decades to be moved from their centrality as a division between Tasmanians, the differences are now ingrained and will resurface until society changes under the pressure of our attacks on natural systems.

Part of that change would be turning a new leaf but no make over of the Premier has worked and now Labors hold on the little Parliament is in doubt, the 2 card trick now failing to confuse or amuse.

Tasmanians may re-elect a Labor government but it will require 2 years of hard work to get new leaves in place and give meaning to the trick.

Lennon having a cup of coffee with Flannagan will make that more likely.

Richard, you are being way too kind to the guy if resignation is the only condition.

Even those who are full of classical christian charity would insist that he truly repent all his multifarious sins. And to test his sincerity, some form of public penance (e.g a symbolic flogging on Parliament lawns, a la Henry II) might be in order.

“Tasmanians may re-elect a Labor government but it will require 2 years of hard work to get new leaves in place and give meaning to the trick.” Posted by phill Parsons
It will require more than a new Labor, Liberal or even a Green state Gov’t to significantly change things for the better. For starters, Gunns’ strangle hold on all the daily newspapers in this state must be removed before the vast majority of Tasmanians can have any idea of what’s really going on. Don’t count on ABC Tasmania to fill the gap either, someone’s properly put the gag on that lot .
OK, we have this site to help us get closer to the truth but here I often get the feeling we’re preaching to the converted.

Just make sure that Lennon buys the drinks Richard.

Great response Richard. By sharing the truth that most Tasmanians are aware of, you have become much more than a thorn in the side of the Lennon/Gunns syndicate and their concern is palpable.

Never before have we had such a need for a focus. Your words are able to cut through and easily clear away the haze of corruption that has spread across this State like the smoke palls from the so called regenerative burn offs.

There now remains a need, if not an urgency, for you to have a long supper with the people of Tasmania instead!

Typical. It is about what I would expect from that smart-arse.
What do the Greens get out of all of this? I can tell you that Labor Party supporters such as myself, (there are lots of us), will be thinking very carefully about where we distribute our second preference and subsequent votes in the future. In the pasy, (a while ago, now) I always gave my second preferences to the Greens. Never again!
I don’t reckon there is anyone left in the Party now who will still give their preferences to the Greens. Suck on that, you tossers.
I am sure there are just as many among the Liberals who feel similarly. Tasmanian Parliamentary Liberals in Tasmania have long memories, too, and Liberals across the country won’t forget the last Federal election in a hurry, either.
As for the ‘writer of fiction’, we will never forget his comment,  “a blind earthworm has more vision than the Bacon government”. If those of you involved in, or connected to the Arts could just pause for a moment, and contemplate the state of the Arts in Tasmania as it was ten years ago, ie, before Ten Days on the Island, and Design Island, and contemplate all that has been achieved since…
Richard, gather up all your shit, and go somewhere else.

When Minister for Forests in the Bacon Government, Paul Lennon supported Forestry Tasmania personnel in using misleading, intimidatory, deceptive, unconscionable tactics to financially disadvantage a small, privately operated, eco-friendly, huon pine salvage business enterprise. This was done to allegedly assist Forestry Tasmania fulfill “supply obligations” to their preferred sawmillers. If Premier Lennon believes this incident is past and forgotten…he’s badly mistaken.

George Harris’ comment:

George, I suppose in every group of people there are a few “Tossers” as you call them, even amongst people with a social conscience, such as Greens, TAP, Getup and the like. What seems to be prevalent among people who aspire to be “Labor Party Supporters” your term not mine, is the fact that nobody else can have an opinion, unless it agrees with yours and that of the party.
  Richard has as much right to live here as you and has the right, under democratic rule, to express his thoughts, just as you have here.  Unfortunately and this is where the main argument lies, democracy is not being practised in Tasmania. Tasmanians do not have any rights over chemicals in their water, pollutants in their air nor the vile visual pollution that adorns the landscape. They have no rights in choosing whether they or there children get to work in a clean and healthy workplace, such as tourism, farming, fishing or possible IT, because there is to be only one game in town, wood chipping.
  Is that what you want for your kids? Do you desire a future of sickness, underpayment and limited social and economic outlook? This is not about politics, it is about corruption, the spoils of which you will never enjoy.

David Leigh.

Every government in Australia has it’s good points and bad points,Tasmania is no different it’s a pity the pulp mill will go ahead, but as it stands not one person has found a solution to Tasmania’s economic development which in turn makes the governments jump over hoops for any business that’s willing to commit large amounts of cash.

If Richard was that strong on his morals he would have met the premier to discuss his concerns.

Tasman, there are many solutions to Tasmania’s woes. Tourism is 10 times the industry that logging is. Estimates show between 26,000 and 40,000 people are directly or indirectly employed by that industry, as opposed to 4,000 by wood chipping. The only person to benefit from Tasmania giving away its natural resources is John Gay. It is not a sustainable business model in any sense of the word

A commentator in The Mercury today deplores Richard’s refusal and suggests that a “visionary” shouldn’t “shy away from a gaining a different perspective”. But Richard Flanagan is completely aware of everything that Paul Lennon stands for (as is anyone else who cares to keep their eyes open). A lunch with the Premier isn’t going to add to his appreciation.

He’s well advised to avoid it, because it would be purely a media stunt whereby Lennon tried to massage his bogus “good bloke” image. Why make the #%&‘s task any easier?

David Leigh, you’ve got it wrong. Of course anyone and everyone can have an opinion, and I and other Labor Party supporters defend everyone’s right to have and express opinions. However, there are consequences to the manner in which people express or act upon their opinions. What I am saying is that the manner in which some people, including the Greens, some of their supporters, and Richard Flanagan in particular have caused me to say that’s it, enough, go to buggery, and from now on I am giving the Greens my least value vote at every opportunity - Federal, State, and Local, as I continue to vote below the line and number every square…
It also seems you know nothing about forest management and timber production, given your comment on woodchipping, and other self-righteous generalizations.

As a writer and professional observer, Richard should definitely go.

A neighbour and I booked a meeting with Forestry Minister Lennon back in 1999 when Bacon and his cabinet came to Deloraine as part of a travelling “cabinet forum”. On arrival I had been supplied with a badge identifying me as “John Wayward”.

Lennon was late in coming table, then initially left the talking to two aides.  When he did enter the conversation, it was with a primitive, Chipman-style repertoire of forestry spin.

As I rebutted the stream of balderdash, he turned increasingly rubicund, until finally declaring that if I was not prepared to agree, there was no point continuing. He was staring down at his thumbs , which were being rapidly twirled above his twined fingers on the table. 

As we rose to leave, I remarked that I realised that he received much more in donations from the logging industry than he did from the general public.

Reddening yet further he growled” You better not say that again”.

“Say what?” I asked

“Accuse me of taking bribes”. 

After reminding him I had said"donations”, that was it for our conversation.

John Hayward

18; George, would you care to elaborate on exactly where David has gone wrong? I read a lot of your posts, full of froth and bubble about how evil the greens are. Problem is they’re very short on facts that others can debate.
I’m traditionally a Liberal voter (business etc) but it’s contributions like yours that are turning me into a glued on green supporter.
19; Like the anecdote john!

George Harris’ comments

George, I can assure you I have not got this wrong and as for managing forests, I fail to see how clear felling, losing most of the top soil to rainfall, which silts up the rivers, can be called forest management.
  Hot burns, adding hundreds of thousands of tons of carbon into the atmosphere and calling them burn offs is irresponsible.
  Over fertilising with super, to feed a monoculture (something that was stopped in Europe a long time ago because it didn’t work), forced and rapid growth, thus depleting the water table… Spraying with Atrazine and other nasties are not forest management either.
  These chemicals and practices fail to meet duty of care, something most people overlook. Atrazine and these methods have been banned in most other civilised countries.
  ‘Forest management’ is a phrase used to frequently in Tasmania to obscure destruction of a natural resource for greed. It would be better labelled ‘Forest Mismanagement’.
 
  Real management of forests is about using the resource sustainably. Selective logging, for timber, allowing other trees to grow into the light and space, replanting to allow for loss and maintaining a balance of wildlife and under story, a variety of plant species, man working in harmony with nature. That is forest management.
  This way of operating will increase employment in areas that require skills. It will value add down the line adding more and more jobs, which are sustainable and satisfying. Foresters, wood millers, wood machinists, carpenters, joiners, cabinetmakers, and polishers and then comes the sales and delivery of finished goods. Woodchips will not do that.
  Since wood chipping for paper started, jobs in forestry have halved. As machines take up more of the work, they will halve again. And as I said before, this is not about politics; it is above the arguments of Liberal – Labour – Greens and independents. It is about a future for the next generation and the generation after that. Jobs, water they can drink, air they can breathe and a reason to be alive.

David Leigh.

Hello George, still trying to help rescue Lennon’s Labor, still up to a green bashing on any who can see through Lennon and Co’s charade, still championing the Leading Tassie embarrassment and the forest industries desire to detangle the states forests. Why does Lennon need to have a go at Richard Flanagan, when George can do it for him.

How’s the steering committee on investigating the woodcraft industry going? Hammering home FT’s, Gunns, Lennon’s dribble no doubt – the all’s well that’s clearfelled… and burnt… and poisoned… and of course George only the leftovers are chipped! Maybe that’s why Tassie is becoming known as a fools paradise.

But just think what you could have done with that whole myrtle forest that’s being burnt. Up in smoke and not a single piece of timber out of it. Managing forests to produce woodchips and ash, gee that’s innovation, that’s cutting edge stuff, my word what forward thinking forest management that is. By supporting the wanton destruction of specialty trees, suppose it benefits you in making these specialty trees rarer, you can then charge more.

Seeing as you appear to be all in the forestry know, when will the forest destroyers stop practicing and get on with some proper forest management?

Dismord undersestimates the abilities of voters. The media may provide information and influence opinion and people not be fully attentative but over 2 years this stink will sink in.

The Greens have four members in parlaiment and therfore a base of support. The intersting thing is where their prefernces go.

I understand many go to Labor inj a state election.

If the Liberlas are clever enough they may go there. I would find it difficult to condone another Lennon government at the ballot. 

14/11 only requires a change of 2 seats to become 13/12 and make the parliament a minority Labor government.

The Liberals, who are neck and neck at the opinion polls beat labor then they may govern in minority.

For labor to ensure it is returned then the Lennon makeover has to be major and effective.

Good luck changing the spots George, you need it .

Thoroughly agree with the sentiments expressed in #22, Charles & Claire…..........The Battered Sav did himself no favours on the TV news last night by dismissing the Democracy meeting in Hobart as only a ‘Greens front’. He apparently still has a small following of deluded acolytes (eg George Harris) who think he is on the money, but they are going to find it much more difficult to label the similar Launceston meeting as a ‘Greens front’, when one of the speakers is from the Liberal Party.
And before one or two wankers jump in and tell me I have an opportunity to excercise my democratic rights every four years - NOT GOOD ENOUGH - we put these people in to represent US, and when they don’t listen to US and refuse to represent US, then it is our democratic duty to do something about it. We are NOT obliged to wait until the next election to do so. This crap about ‘waiting for the next election’ has gone on far too long and is precisely the reason why we are in the parlous state that we are.

For too long those in power have been able to depend on a disengaged and disinterested electorate, and got away with blue murder. This time they have gone too far and they can’t get the worms back in the can, no matter how hard they try.

I’msure Lindsay likes it when i bait you lot. It seems that when i don’t, some of these threads go nowhere….

“I’msure (sic) Lindsay likes it when i (sic) bait you lot. It seems that when i (sic) don’t, some of these threads go nowhere….” In your dreams George-baby! Why don’t you just admit that you have backed a loser!

He’s either got something up his sleeve or he’s got a lot of gaul ... or he just doesn’t get it. Does the party support him and do they get it?

George Harris is really Ken Jefferys, everyone knows that.

One thing that can truly be said about Paul Lennon, he always puts his mouth where the money is.

Brilliantly put Gerry, that is why they both stink, given that Lennon talks nothing but crap.

Now I’ve heard it all… That thoughtful Mr Garrett wants to heritage list the Kakoda Trail against mining. He condemns deforestation in Indonesia whilst allowing the desecration of forests in his own country. George, you mentioned “Tossers” in an earlier dialogue, well this is a tosser; a tosser of the highest order. This man could easily get a job on the Lennon government, he has all the attributes: Able to perform a 180 degree turnabout with the grace of a pirouetting ballerina, to quote from an earlier article, he puts his mouth where the money is and he is big and ugly, like Lennon… The perfect tosser.

By the way, this thread was going somewhere before you put your two pence worth in. You just copped an ear bashing for speaking out without the facts.

David Leigh.

David Leigh

David Leigh.

chucked this on the Mercury site but i have a funny feeling they won’t run it anywhere visible :)

“Actually, Richard Flanagan was uncharacteristically shortsighted to turn down nibblies with Big Red - just think about it: a confined space, Captain Stupid, and a bunch of sharp cutlery and breakable glassware. Any self-respecting treehugger amongst us could turn lunch with Lemon into a Tarantinoesque thing of joy, giving meaning to the expression “You bloody beauty”.”

p.s. Is David Leigh the new Tomass Rignobli?

Re: Meeting on Democracy 29th April 08

I note that our beloved leader has ignored the invitation to speak at this event, One wonders why he has turned down the opportunity to spruik his cause…. eg. the Pulp mill….and other issues.. and to confront his critics and persuade them to think otherwise, Unfortunately communication with the people that he governs? seems to be out of the question…
What a pity I would dearly love to see him writhing   and wriggling on the barbs of the publics questions
Ah! well at least he can’t say he didn’t have the chance Freddi Mazoudier

Well george ! so you are a dyed in the wool Labor supporter ! even after your illustrious leaders (along with his henchmen)fall from grace !
 
  And i suspect you thought Idi Amin, and Saddam, and Bush,and Mubota,and Bin Laden are all good blokes too ! wake up to yourself ! turn on the footy and grab another beer !~ ya wanker !
                      d.d.

And no, Typingisnotactivism, I am not the the new Thomas Rignoli, just a guy with a social conscience and a passion to hand on, to the next generation, at least a few of the trees I have enjoyed seeing.

David Leigh.

I’ll drink to that David… but don’t know how good your chances are,  judging by the amount of trees speeding past through Derby over the past week or two…....Freddi Mazoudier

It was good to return to this special place after being overseas for a month to see that things are starting to change. Richard Flanagan is being urged to stand for Parliament to be as equally useful as Peter Garrett, another public meeting was held in Launceston trying to keep the green dream alive of stopping the pulp mill, and even some complaints against smoke from fuel reduction burns.
Go to Guangzhou for a holiday where seeing the sun is problematic on a good day.
With around 1 million people at risk of starvation in North Korea right now, the small problems of the RPDC and some smoke in the air for two days somehow do not seem all that relevant.

Therefore lets see some solutions to all of these issues. How would you fix the discredited RPDC and how would you sort out the planning mess?

Solutions TT readers are yours to propose. Where are your solutions.

Solutions, HillDweller, are there to be had. Firstly, though, these burns are not fuel reduction, to prevent bush fires. These hot burns are designed to destroy any seeds that might interfere with blue gum plantations. They are also used to get rid of the timber Gunns can’t be bothered to take to the chipper. “Only timber waste is used, from our native forests, to make wood chips”. Go to the Forestry Tasmania upturned bucket in Scottsdale and read for yourself. Then go up to Morinna and have a look at the coup I photographed, not two weeks ago. Better still, have a look on this site. Carbon emissions, along with other nasties, are being poured into our atmosphere at a rate far higher than vehicle fumes. I do not accept that because some countries have to put up with pollution, we do.

Solution:

One hectare of commercially grown hemp will produce as much quality paper as 4.1 hectares of forest and it only takes 100 days to maturity.
not 100 years.(http://www.hempresources.com.au)
  This will grow in any soil condition, requires no surface watering (ideal for drought-stricken mainland Australia)

Solution:

Selective log forests for timber production, only taking the trees that will provide quality timber, leaving the forests to generate that other product we all need, oxygen.
  This will create work of a sustainable nature, skilled and satisfying work down the line. It also value ads the timber, making a greater return, not just for a few but for a multitude of Tasmanians.

Solution:

Eco tourism is the fastest growing industry in the world, creating lasting, well-paid work for many people. Wood chipping will only provide a limited amount of low paid work as long as machines cannot perform the task.

Solution:

Tasmania’s reputation is being sullied by bad forestry practices, which I might add have been banned in other civilised countries. The soils in this part of the world are possibly as good as they get. Rich dairy land, under tree plantation is a real problem. Revert the land back to farming and feed the world, with quality produce. You cannot eat trees and they do not act as a carbon sink over 8 years, even 12.

Solution:

Look at the whole equation, not just the economy; the environment must come first, because without it we would not be having this dialogue. Without air, water, good soil we cannot make paper anyway.
  Find ways to regenerate the natural forest, bringing a return to natural rainfall and clean water. You can buy water in plastic bottles, if you wish, but that has its own problems.

Solution:

Stop putting super phosphates on mountain slopes to raise blue gums. Plantations, for timber production (not paper) can be raised using traditional methods, such as Biochar and new developments in microbiology. Better still, don’t have plantations.

Look HillDweller, we could go on all day and waste a lot of hot air but the nub is, don’t support something that will only benefit a few in the short term, leaving the many disenfranchised.

David Leigh.

Ok HillDweller ....Looks as if you have a number of solutions to digest ..
David Leigh seems to have covered all of your concerns.. NOW how about you come up with a few.??
There is no point comparing Tassie to North Korea ..
WE should all be focusing on our own backyard and trying to clean up what is so blatantly wrong ..
Freddi Mazoudier