The powers that be must be reading TT. We now have, according to WIN TV, a moratorium on explosives. They want them all handed in, so none may be left to be a temptation to the unruly…

Well said, Scott, but I suggest you forget about engaging the forestry stooges, Woodworker et al, in polemics.

Tasmania is being fleeced through political corrption that is technically legal until we catch a minister pocketing a cheque. There is no other plausible explanation for what goes on here. This, the electoral installation of dodgy regimes,  is the preferred mode of corruption in other parts of the developing world, where regulatory and legal organs have been fully compromised.

The Tasmanian logging industry’s claims to be supporting the Tasmanian economy hold no water.  If they did, why do no mainland industries follow suit?

JOHN HAYWARD

A beautifully written piece Scott. We run parallel.

I am finding it increasingly harder to come to terms with the atrocities forced on the natural world by people who see all before them as their own to do with as they please.
I took some rare time for myself today to visit a waterfall in the north east and swim in the cool clear water.
It was a small soul healing, but a welcome and much needed one.

I can’t go to the Florentine to support the brothers and sisters of the forest.
I don’t have the capacity within me to face the abomination that would confront me.

This never ending battle is always draining because it seems that right is constantly being buried by wrong and right is always digging to find freedom and peace and the gravity that is government is working to make wrong’s job a walk in the park.

As you point out Scott, the pulp mill has been going on for quite some time now and it has become part of my life in one form or another since it first appeared.
Along with that comes all the pulp mill stands for; be it forests, water or air and especially our community.

I think it is as it should be and that is well and truly screwed, but the tentacles of government and the vested interests have the project in intensive care and on life support.

Gunns seem to have no idea what they are doing, be it from the perspective of the project itself, including the way they approached putting the whole thing together and now using hired spin doctors trying to give the shebang an image better than a lump of shite.

With Garrett on ABC radio today saying that the proposal needs a minimum of twelve months of modelling in addition to six months on his desk before it even looks like a getting the nod and with their share price today closing at 95 odd cents, it would be prudent for the board and investors to seek some yoga instruction so they can learn how to bend over and kiss their arses goodbye.

Goodbye pulp mill, goodbye Gunns….hello life, hello sanity, hello brothers and sisters.

Keep rolling you good show you…..

We need more Scott Millwoods. We need more Brenda Heans and dare I say it we need more Bob Browns! We are a nation of cowards and do nothings from our national government ministers down to the dregs of society. If we were faced with 1941 again I think we would as a nation sit on our collective arses and expect someone else to pull us out of the shit. Lets get some balls and fight the enemy within even if it means alienating a neighbour or forcing a redneck to get retrained like most of the rest of us have done when our jobs have become obsolete. It would be cheaper to put the lot of them on the dole for the rest of their lives than subsidise a passe industry which is well on the way to consigning us all to hell!
If they won’t listen then we must make them listen - LET’S DO IT!!!!

P.S. I have a job and always have. I am not a “greenie” but since relocating to Tassie have shifted from ultra right wing to somewhat left of centre thanks to the two so called major political parties here, not to mention John whatsisname. At least we have a viable oposition in the Greens even if I do not agree with some of their platform. Join the voters block and regain democracy.

4; Couldn’t agree more Roderick. I relate because I’ve walked the same path. Could almost become a joke;Q. How do you turn a right wing conservative into a greenie? A. Relocate them to Tasmania.

If by ‘breaking the law’ you mean ‘disobeying the government’ then I suspect you’ll find an increasing number of instances where that becomes a survival strategy.

To John Hayward, (post #2), the eccentric writer of wierd letters to newspapers and blog sites, I reply as follows:
To your final paragraph, “The Tasmanian logging industry’s claims to be supporting the Tasmanian economy hold no water.  If they did, why do no mainland industries follow suit?” I can tell you that Gunn’s have never had more competition, and it is largely due to the policies of the state government, and much of this competition has come from interstate, and overseas, but not all. Examples: ITC and FEA, (both mainland companies), have set up major new high-tech mills in Tasmania, (Bell Bay and Southwood), and Ta Ann (Malaysia) has set up two multi-million dollar Rotary-Peel Veneer mills in the state, (Geeveston and Smithton). McKay Timbers, a Tasmanian company, has recently taken over the Clennett’s sawmills, (Brighton, Glenorchy and Dover), and has recently totally re-built a mill at St. Helens with state-of-the-art technology. Similarly, Britton Brothers at Smithton have undertaken major re-building and re-equipping of their milling operations, as have Corinna Timbers at Camdale. As usual, your assertion is full of shit.
And further, I can tell you that it has been communicated to me that an email was received by Tasmania Police alerting them to the Scott Millwood article, of which they were not aware, and that they are apparently considering taking action as a result, and they might be going to monitor certain blog sites more closely….
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it…! 

JOHN HAYWARD

#7 “Yada…..yada…...yada.

Ohh Christ, we’ve got James Bond reincarnate! With oh brother watching … does that mean we can’t be naked and transparent anymore?  Maybe some of the industry heads, forest managers and government reps could advise us on how to cover up!  Now what was the name of he who grasped at straws and tried to spin and turn it into fools gold? Rumplestiltskin would at least be proud.

woodworker. Eccentric writer of weird letters to blog sites. Particularly at early hours of the morning.

Quote from New Matilda post by woodworker: I am going to email a copy of [Scott Millwood’s] article to the Tasmanian Police.

#7 above ‘It has been communicated to me that an email was received by Tasmania Police…’

At least we know that you’re talking to yourself.

Yes, Sue, (#10), it was my idea. I circulated it around my network in the forestry and timber industry areas, but I did not act on it myself in the first instance. Beaten to the jump! Others also thought it was a good idea, and I had plenty of personal email replies to that effect, plus other information forwarded to me, as well!
Have a nice day….

#10 Sue, that should read “mumbling” and not “talking.” It could be medication time.

Hmmm…Woodworker appears to be very keen on ingratiating himself with forestry and the police. And who except the police could ‘communicate to him’ that an email was received by Tasmanian Police? Why would any other sender bother to communicate such a minor item to Woodworker?

Keep on working away at that wood, big fella. Happy ending guaranteed, though shortsightedness and hirsute palms may ensue…

#7. ‘And further, I can tell you that it has been communicated to me that an email was received by Tasmania Police alerting them to the Scott Millwood article, of which they were not aware, and that they are apparently considering taking action as a result, and…..’ Woodworker

I’m glad this article has been referred to the police by woodlouse. It will be an education for them and might even convince them that the stereotyped crap they have been fed by the government is just that, stereotyped crap. The action they might take is to actually do the duty that they are paid for, which is to protect the public from intimidation, bullying, extortion and repression.

Another ‘legal’ institution is recalled to mind. It was named Guantanamo Bay!

George Harris is continually spinning half truths and distortions.

A typical example is this:

In “New Matilda” from Woodworker (George Harris)  30/01/09 9:38AM
“.........I am going to email a copy of his (Scott Millwood’s) article to the Tasmanian Police.”

Posted by Woodworker on TT 07/02/09 at 12:37 AM
“.... I can tell you that it has been communicated to me that an email was received by Tasmania Police alerting them to the Scott Millwood article “

While literally there may be some truth in what he writes the impression he conveys is quite different. Distortions and half truths.

This is fairly typical of his way with words.

What a laugh! Some of these whacko’s remind me of a line my grandmother used to say… “It’s something to hear ducks fart in windy weather…!”

Interesting that some posts I made on the Triabunna 13 thread were incorrectly mentioned in the same sentence as the word “incitement”, when Millwood’s tedious (and remarkably light on facts) theoretical waffle is very clearly advocating breaking the law.

But worse than that, Millwood’s article is a boring pile of cliches.  There is nothing in it by way of argument that anyone who follows the debate closely will not have seen at least a dozen times already and, although polished, it doesn’t even carry a distinctive tone. Much like too many of the “articles” here, it is more like an overlong letter to the editor than a quality feature piece.

Why does the New Matilda (a site purporting to provide “intelligent coverage”) publish this biased, predictable and irresponsible guff?  Does it have any concern for its reputation whatsoever?

A fine example of some great Australian qualities displayed by Woodworker in his postings here. The ease with which he can combine the dobber, the crawler and the gloater bespeaks a lifetime of compensation for personal inadequacies.

Well said Bob. The irony here is that it won’t just be contributors on this site who are disgusted by Woodworker’s comments. I have no doubt there are many responsible individuals in Tasmania police who also have serious personal reservations about the damaging nature of the present Labor government and its filthy dealings with Forestry and Gunns. Nobody respects a dobber Woodworker, not even the police and even less when the only offence committed is voicing an opinion.

................So stick that in ya pipe and smoke it Woodjerker!

A bit of clarification, as George points out many large mills in Tasmania have recently upgraded their operations.
Guess who paid the bill>
Yep We Did
Remember Little Johnnies Tasmanian Community Forest Agreement.
He agreed to cough up very large sums our our money to support the industry because he was going to take away resource from them by locking up land that was already locked up.
John Gay’s comments were that the agreement was “good for business”
How could locking up another 176 thousand hectares of forest be good for business when the industry screams at even letting 10% of the Florentine be locked up.
Nice of you too remind folks of our Taxes at work George

Hey Woodworker…glad you liked what I wrote.

In case you forgot, read through to the last line at
http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/weblog/article/stott/

I also remember Paul Lennon standing on a large stump beside John Howard and saying, ‘This is a win for the forests.’

That was before he moved all the boundaries and saved for the second and third time all the bits that had already been saved and reverted to business as usual. I believe he accepted the money though!

#18. ‘Why does the New Matilda (a site purporting to provide “intelligent coverage”) publish this biased, predictable and irresponsible guff?  Does it have any concern for its reputation whatsoever?’ ....... KB

I could imagine the response of New Matilda concerning Kevin Bonham (a person purporting to be intelligent) being couched in exactly those same words. The only difference, I think they would have more of a case.

I have some questions for Bob McMahon and Jon Ayling concerning their strange endorsement of the anti-dobber ethos.

1.  Do you also support the anti-dobber ethos when it is invoked by redneck true-blue Aussie thugs who wish to employ it to discourage reporting of (for instance) schoolyard bullying, workplace sexual harassment and firearms offence violations?

2. Was Bill Manning a “dobber”?  (If not, why not?)

Pete (22)
How many local country sawmills saw any of that money?
I assume that not many, if any did.
Gunns survives only on the subsidies it recieves. The small local mills do not.
It is not a level playing field.

Gerry (#25), the difference between my comment about the New Matilda and your attempt to throw it back at me is that I substantiated mine whereas yours is just over-optimistic trolling.  NM is supposedly a significant online magazine-type site trying to attract reader interest and sell advertising.  I have edited a magazine in the past, but for the present, I’m just a poster; I don’t have a magazine-type product that I’m trying to sell.  Though if I was really so predictable you would predict me, know which claims I would demolish far too easily and refrain from making them.

In the “Contribute” section I found the following:

“newmatilda.com will not publish material that is untrue, seeks to defame or has an axe to grind. We seek submissions on political and social issues in Australia and the world - writing that is witty not whingeing, independent not ideological, brave not bland.”

Millwood’s article, in my view, is all of whingeing, ideological and bland, and in no way “witty”.  Whether the author has an “axe to grind” is unknown to me but he is certainly a familiar suspect in the debate and hardly “independent” from a publishing perspective.  I might grant that the article is “brave” but given that green offenders attract token sentences when convicted I doubt it is even that much of that.

I cannot see why New Matilda published this article.  Doing so goes against almost everything they claim to stand for.

You may not be talking to us kevin, but we are true blue and we’ll tell the truth about the truth. we don’t call that dobbing, we call it telling the truth!

So Charles and Claire, do you call what woodworker refers to on this thread (ie alerting police to the Millwood article which incites others to break the law) “dobbing”?

(30) Yes. There is a lot of difference between telling the truth - exposing either a law, person or injustice that ultimately will have a negative effect on many people,  and dobbing in a person who is/was trying to expose that injustice. 

We don’t believe for one moment and were never given the impression by Scott Millwood’s article that he was inciting breaking the law to the point it would really harm anybody. Infact if anything the opposite was true. 

Sometimes for protection, the law has to be broken, especially when they are unjust laws. And the parallels Scott Millwood drew in his article, clearly demonstrate that.

Woodworker and his forestry mates were not coming from a good place in ‘dobbing’. They were not trying to protect anyone but themselves. It was just another fear tactic, trying to intimidate people to keep their mouths closed.  Woodworker was jumping up and down like a spoilt brat, who couldn’t get his way. He’s obviously annoyed at being layed bare.

What Bill Manning did and what so many others try and do is expose the truth, the cover-ups, the deceit, that’s not dobbing in our books, that’s having a conscience and acting on it for the broader benefit.

Kevin, there is a big difference between a person who, for some obscure reason, feels the need to alert the authorities (any one will do) and a whistleblower who seeks to tell the truth for a common good. The former has to do with gaining some sense of relief from having an inadequate character whilst the latter is a matter of giving something of oneself to others.

I don’t consider Woodworker’s comments above or indeed, your recent attempts to draw others such as myself into pointless argument, to be of benefit to anyone.

#31 and #32 just confirm my suspicions.  For both posters, the criteria for whether someone is a whistleblower or a dobber come down to the poster’s biased opinion of which informant has truth and justice on their side. 

Never mind that a Gunns sycophant would argue (probably not entirely incorrectly) that illegal green protests severely affect the livelihoods of workers and are therefore certainly not to the benefit of all as claimed in #31.

Millwood’s parallels don’t demonstrate anything except that he cannot argue a coherent case and is a bit of a tryhard in the area of political philosophy.  He argues that the fight to end slavery was also opposed vehemently and by vested economic interests and compares this to the opposition encountered by the anti-Gunns campaign.  But even if two fights are (supposedly) opposed in the same manner, does this mean they are equally legitimate, important and worth breaking the law over? No.

To illustrate this clearly, Pauline Hanson was also opposed vehemently.  Had Pauline Hanson’s party had a serious chance of forming government, many powerful vested interests that didn’t care for its crackpot economics would have opposed it.  Does this mean Pauline Hanson’s cause was as legitimate as opposing slavery?  Of course it doesn’t. 

Millwood’s argument therefore involves a basic logical fallacy and this is another reason why New Matilda should not have lowered their credibility by printing it.

Well, an interesting collection of comments here.
#19, Is that the same individual that can’t or won’t accept that parts of the Tamar Valley were zoned for heavy industry more than fifty years ago? Isn’t that like the kind of person who buys a house near an airport, and then starts to complain about aircraft noise?
And #20, Jon, there are plenty of workers and contractors who have met every legal and operational requirement placed upon them, but who have suffered financial loss and threats to their job security by people who have invaded their workplaces and clearly broken the law. The police are keenly aware of this, and while many must be dismayed by the leniency of the courts in dealing with offenders, they are sufficiently professional to not display it. They understand the separation of powers, and are careful to operate within their guidelines. They also realise that when it comes to expressing their feelings they are a little more constrained than the rest of the community, (except when they approach the ballot box, where they have no less opportunity than the rest of us, and no more either.) You have a wierd view of the police, something more akin to that of a banana republic.
Sorry Clive, #23, I have not read what you wrote.
Tony, #27, instead of making pathetic assumptions, why don’t you look into it more closely? The criteria for accessing that money remains on the public record for all to see, and without high-level search skills you can find information on who got what. Which bit of it do you suggest adds up to anything other than a level playing field?
Elsewhere it appears some cannot accept that members of the various forestry and timber industry organisations, such as the Forest Industrieas Association of Tasmania, the Tasmanian Forest Contractors Association, Forestry Tasmania and Timber Communities Australia, share information and communicate with each other, and that some people have common membership of various of these organisations. For example, it was widely discussed that the police should be encouraged to charge offenders, in order that it would make it easier for contractors suffering losses through protest action to pursue successful litigation. In the instance that is topical here, it was a shared view that notifying the police of the inciteful opinions of a B-grade Melbourne lawyer turned B-grade documentary maker was a good idea. In the information that has been shared since the response, I am not the only one who has previously never heard of the section within the Tasmanian Police that goes by the name of State Intelligence Services….  (Whatever else I hear, I may, or may not, share with you…)
Checked for expletives, deleted where necessary.
Have a nice day!

The criteria for accessing that money remains on the public record for all to see, and without high-level search skills you can find information on who got what. Which bit of it do you suggest adds up to anything other than a level playing field? .... Woodsomething.

How about 100000 hectares of land that just quietly disappeared of the public record and undisclosed subsisies and hidden donations to government. Where does one look for this information?